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Old 04-26-2005   #16
stonebreaker
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protools4
sunbeam alpine
sunbeam tiger
later the Shelby Cobra
Actually, it was the AC Ace, but you get my point.
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Old 04-27-2005   #17
Nocturn
 
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While I don't think you need a V8 in the solstice, Im also kind of sick of hearing this. Its almost as if people forgot you can get power out of other engines. You can probably get 500 some odd HP out of the GM 6 cylinders without much trouble, I know for a fact that the 2.0 Eco is good to 300-330 before the rods break, and after that its good to 450, with certain parts withstanding up to 800HP. I'm just sick of hearing how its V8 or nothing. What about throwing in a Rotary, that would be fun, or a twin turbo V6. The 3.6 GTP G6 engine already makes 240, twin turboed I bet you could get it to 450-500 easy. Its like people arn't even creative anymore.

But as said, there ar ALOT of things you have to do for a swap, its not a simple drop in installation. Motor mounts, front springs and suspension, transmission, rear end, brakes, cooling system...all have to be changed completely or altered. I know the CTS differnetial isn't going to stand up to much torque.
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Old 04-27-2005   #18
stonebreaker
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturn
I'm just sick of hearing how its V8 or nothing. What about throwing in a Rotary, that would be fun, or a twin turbo V6. The 3.6 GTP G6 engine already makes 240, twin turboed I bet you could get it to 450-500 easy. Its like people arn't even creative anymore.
So just because somebody comes up with a wildly popular idea that you don't like, suddenly no one is creative anymore?

Last edited by stonebreaker; 04-27-2005 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 04-27-2005   #19
Big_Red_1
 
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Hi all....first post.

This idea does sound good, but would be lots of work. As mentioned, you can get plenty of power out of the Ecotecs to the point where it the advantage of the LS1/LS2 wouldn't matter much. The balance of the car would be upset and handling would most likely suffer and I don't think the Solstice was made for just straight line speed. The main reason I would like a V8 would be for the sound. Some inline 4's do sound good too as long as they don't have a ricer fart pipe on them. I sure this idea will be carried out by someone eventually. Would definitely be a nice sleeper.

Last edited by Big_Red_1; 04-27-2005 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 04-27-2005   #20
stonebreaker
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Red_1
Hi all....first post.

This idea does sound good, but would be lots of work. As mentioned, you can get plenty of power out of the Ecotecs to the point where it the advantage of the LS1/LS2 wouldn't matter much. The balance of the car would be upset and handling would most likely suffer and I don't think the Solstice was made for just straight line speed. The main reason I would like a V8 would be for the sound. Some inline 4's do sound good too as long as they don't have a ricer fart pipe on them. I sure this idea will be carried out by someone eventually. Would definitely be a nice sleeper.
Nice to meet you Big Red.

You obviously didn't read the entire thread. The LS1 is within 30 lbs of a turbo/supercharged ecotec. That means the balance of the car will be unaffected. In fact, because the center of mass on the LS1 is so low compared to the ecotec, the handling is more likely to improve than deteriorate.

I would not be so sure that the v8 conversion will be harder than the turbo. It MOST LIKELY will be, but not necessarily.

A stock LS2 makes over 400 hp. The stock ecotec will require a complete rebuild to handle that much horsepower, including block machining and expensive race parts. That is going to offset by a large margin the fab work required to fit the v8.

The main downside to the v8 is probably going to be the exhaust headers. They will most likely need to be custom fabbed.

Then again, the engine bay may be too short and require the whole front end to be re-fabbed. We won't know until we can actually measure the engine bay.
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Old 04-27-2005   #21
8power
 
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ahh, just as I think to come back and do a comparo of the solstice to the Cobra someone beats me to it.

As for gas mileage, once the wiring is figured out to integrate the LS1 computer w/ the electronics for the solstice, it would be relatively easy to go with a DOD (displacement on demand) motor variation such as the 303 hp 5.3L LS4 going in the Impala this year. This would be quite a fuel friendly combo if you were to change the 3.91 gears that the car needs w/ the ecotec to a more rpm friendly gear selection. There would be no REAL loss in acceleration, if fact, probably a gain in a light weight roadster w/ that kind of torque backing it up....let us not forget that the aisins overdrive gear is significantly higher than the 0.5:1 6th gear in the T56. IOW, I think there would be NO loss in gas mileage w/ this combo. The problems here are 1) so far there is no aluminum variant of the DOD block, meaning 55lbs more weight and 2) you cannot increase the lift of the cam w/ the DOD setup (actually you can by a fraction on the DOD cylinders and the sky is the limit on the 4 cylinders that are not deactivated [ask me how i know].
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Old 04-27-2005   #22
Nocturn
 
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Its not that the V8 swap is so popular, but when everyone does it its not exactly creative now is it. Creative meaning something that is relatively a new idea. Take a look around other Kappa forums and there are at least 2-3 of these type of threads on every board, it just gets kind of old. So yes it is uncreative to simply drop in a big engine, and IMO very boring.

As for the LS1 being 30LBs heavier, thats true but you forget you need stronger chasis parts, stronger drivetrain means more weight, bigger suspension parts mean more weight, larger brakes mean more weight etc etc.

So while a turbo option may equal the weight of the LS1, you won't have to upgrade parts that arn't neccesary out of the box, I.e. Cooling, Fuel, Electronics, Ignition, Brakes, Drivetrain, and Suspension. A tubro can run on stock parts up to a said point (of which im not sure).

As for the stock eco needing a complete rebuild, you obviouslly don't follow GMS racing program. A stock eco block can run up to 400HP with only the rods needing replacing as they snap around 270 HP. With upgraded rods they got around 400-450 before they needed new heads and other various parts. There was a good write up about it around here somewhere, but it doesn't take a rebuild to get that much power of an eco, just the right parts. The block itself was never blown even at 750HP.
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Old 04-27-2005   #23
stonebreaker
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturn
Its not that the V8 swap is so popular, but when everyone does it its not exactly creative now is it. Creative meaning something that is relatively a new idea. Take a look around other Kappa forums and there are at least 2-3 of these type of threads on every board, it just gets kind of old. So yes it is uncreative to simply drop in a big engine, and IMO very boring.

As for the LS1 being 30LBs heavier, thats true but you forget you need stronger chasis parts, stronger drivetrain means more weight, bigger suspension parts mean more weight, larger brakes mean more weight etc etc.

So while a turbo option may equal the weight of the LS1, you won't have to upgrade parts that arn't neccesary out of the box, I.e. Cooling, Fuel, Electronics, Ignition, Brakes, Drivetrain, and Suspension. A tubro can run on stock parts up to a said point (of which im not sure).

As for the stock eco needing a complete rebuild, you obviouslly don't follow GMS racing program. A stock eco block can run up to 400HP with only the rods needing replacing as they snap around 270 HP. With upgraded rods they got around 400-450 before they needed new heads and other various parts. There was a good write up about it around here somewhere, but it doesn't take a rebuild to get that much power of an eco, just the right parts. The block itself was never blown even at 750HP.
How are you going to get the rods into the engine if you don't take it apart and rebuild it?
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Old 04-27-2005   #24
Nocturn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonebreaker
How are you going to get the rods into the engine if you don't take it apart and rebuild it?
Well you'll have to excuse my remark earlier, its the 2.2 that needed new rods that GM used for drag racing, the 2.0 is a different beast that has more powerful rods/crank from the factory.
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Old 04-28-2005   #25
stonebreaker
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturn
Well you'll have to excuse my remark earlier, its the 2.2 that needed new rods that GM used for drag racing, the 2.0 is a different beast that has more powerful rods/crank from the factory.
And I'm to understand the 2.4 available in the solstice has these forged parts? Billet crank, H-beam rods, all that stuff? I think not.

OK, since I will have to either rebuild the stock engine to get these trick parts into it or buy the supercharged engine outright, I went to Scoggin Dickey and priced a 2.0 supercharged ecotec. SD's discounted price is $3812.80. This is actually cheaper than buying the new crank, rods, pistons and supercharger kit separately; the billet ecotec crank ALONE costs $3799, so we'll stick with the cheaper price and buy the whole engine.

205 hp - 177 hp = 28 hp.
$3812.80/28hp = $136.17/hp.

A 400 hp LS2 crate engine from SD is $5495.

400 hp - 177 hp = 223 hp.
$5495/223 hp = $24.64/hp.

Why are people so pumped about the v8 option? The LS2's a freakin' bargain, that's why.

Being an incorrigible gearhead, there's no way I could leave the stock supercharger in place. So I went to Hahn Racecraft and a couple of other places and priced out a turbo kit. Most stage 3 kits advertise 200 hp for around $4599.

So 400 hp out of the ecotec will cost a MINIMUM of $8411.

$8411/(400-177) = $37.72/hp vs. $24.64/hp for the LS2. $37.72/hp is a heck of a lot better than $136.17/hp, but the LS2 is still 35% cheaper than the ecotec option.

Both routes will require many of the same upgrades. Transmission upgrades, rear end work, suspension, exhaust, and cooling will all need to be dealt with no matter which engine you go with, so those costs will tend to cancel each other out. That means I have nearly $3,000 to spend on fitting the v8 into the chassis before the cost of the v8 catches up with the cost of the ecotec.

Granted, putting the v8 into the chassis will be a lot more trouble than just hotrodding the ecotec, but all I wanted to do is point out that the v8 option isn't as outrageous as it sounds at first.

Last edited by stonebreaker; 04-29-2005 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 04-29-2005   #26
Nocturn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonebreaker
And I'm to understand the 2.4 available in the solstice has these forged parts? Billet crank, H-beam rods, all that stuff? I think not.
Not the 2.4, but the 2,0 thats currently in the Cobalt SS does....

"Also included on this engine:

* A direct-mount oil cooler.
* Oil jets for piston cooling.
* Heavy-duty pistons.
* Strong connecting rods.
* Forged-steel crankshaft.
* Large oil pump.
* Sodium-filled exhaust valves for improved durability.
* A high-strength aluminum cylinder head."
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Old 04-29-2005   #27
stonebreaker
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturn
Not the 2.4, but the 2,0 thats currently in the Cobalt SS does....

"Also included on this engine:

* A direct-mount oil cooler.
* Oil jets for piston cooling.
* Heavy-duty pistons.
* Strong connecting rods.
* Forged-steel crankshaft.
* Large oil pump.
* Sodium-filled exhaust valves for improved durability.
* A high-strength aluminum cylinder head."
I don't see your point. Either way, you have to remove the stock engine; so how is the smaller engine better than the V8?
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Old 06-05-2005   #28
edge007
 
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Sorry new to the boards, did you guys see this article
http://www.mallettcars.com/news-5-26-05-v8solstice.htm

Mallett Cars To Build V8 LS2 Powered Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky
Mallett Cars, Ltd. has announced their next venture: the V8 powered Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky. These 2 seater roadsters will be powered by the LS2 V8 engine that is currently used in the C6 Corvettes.
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Old 06-07-2005   #29
mangina24
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edge007
Sorry new to the boards, did you guys see this article
http://www.mallettcars.com/news-5-26-05-v8solstice.htm

Mallett Cars To Build V8 LS2 Powered Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky
Mallett Cars, Ltd. has announced their next venture: the V8 powered Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky. These 2 seater roadsters will be powered by the LS2 V8 engine that is currently used in the C6 Corvettes.
I was about to post the same link.

They are scheduled to make 100 cars per year and it'll only be a matter of time before people start reproducing the engine mounts, electrical harness and such to make the ls2 a direct drop into the solistice.

I personally come from the world of turbocharged 4 bangers so I'd have no desire in throwing a ls2 in there, but it is a great idea none the less.
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Old 06-08-2005   #30
Ronin Kuma
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoReMaSteR
If you did a turbo system right with the solstice u could push 400+ horse power with the 4 cylinder. I dont know why you people want to drop v8's into small cars. All it would do is unbalance the weight distribution.

All u have to do is look at cars like the s13's and s14/15's to see that a turbo four can kick the can off a v8.
I whole heartedly agree. Leave it to the old school simple minded to want to shoe horn a different motor into a car that doesn't need it to haul ass. The Ecotec is a proven boost monster if built properly.....first FWD in the 6's anyone? There is nothing like destroying some V8 having wannabe with a 2.0 or 2.4 4cyl motor. The look is priceless. I personally do it all the time in my Talon TSI AWD. Granted the AWD is a street killer, but RWD will be more fun around corners.
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