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Old 04-20-2005   #1
8power
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6
Will an LS1 fit?

So, the big question on my mind is, How hard will it be to fit an LS series motor w/ a T56??? Hey, the Miata guys have done it....both with a Ford 302 and an LS1. Now that would be a lethal car.

The question is, who's got access to one of the show cars, and a good measuring tape?
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Old 04-21-2005   #2
psychosquirrel
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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No offense, but I am kind of sick of hearing this question.

Yes a LS1 will fit......I can also make an LS1 fit inside my shoe, and inside a coffee cup, a thimble and a pez dispenser.

The simple truth is NO, if you have to ASK if it will fit, then NO you likely can't make it fit in the Solstice. That being said if you are Bill Gates or the Sultan of Brunei, you likely wouldnt ask this question because money would be no object and what's another 10,20,30 grand anyways? You could put a jet engine from an F-14 in the Solstice! Go for it!

My response to people out there who want a V8 sports car with a Corvette drive line.....guess what.....GM makes a car for you, it's called the CORVETTE!

I'm sorry but the idea of buying a low cost, limited production car and making it ridiculously expensive, say double the price, just so you can have a gas-guzzling V8 makes no sense to me at all, in fact it borders on insanity.
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Old 04-23-2005   #3
ekool
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 108
I personally wouldnt mind one with an LS2 in it But then again, it's been my dream for a long time to drop an LS1 (now LS2) into an FD RX7 as well

Beauty, but without the hand grenade motor
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Old 04-23-2005   #4
protools4
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9
psychosquirrel

sorry bud...
..you are an idiot!

>>I'm sorry but the idea of buying a low cost, limited production car and making it ridiculously expensive, say double the price, just so you can have a gas-guzzling V8 makes no sense to me at all, in fact it borders on insanity<

a stock ls1 is a fairly light motor and will make 305HP to the ground and can be puchased with trans for less than a turbo kit and fuel managment system. head port and cam and you have 380RWHP in a sub 3000 pund car with a .5 overdrive. Stock z28s get good MPG when driven under 2K RPM with the stick.

500 RWHP NA darton sleaved 454ls1 6speed solstice vary do-able for less money than a new z06. the only thing crazy about that is the smog laws in California.

TAD

Last edited by protools4; 04-23-2005 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 04-24-2005   #5
psychosquirrel
 
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prove it . . . prove to us all that the ls1 inside a Solstice will still be UNDER 3000lbs and not cost you double the price including all labor to do the switch.

The engineering adjustments are not minor and headaches of fitting a larger motor inside such a small car ARE significant, don't fool yourself. Ask any mechanic with experience doing engine swaps (4 cyl to v-8 conversions) the work necessary will make the cost prohibitive for most people.

But if ignorance is bliss then I will leave you alone in your happy place.
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Old 04-24-2005   #6
GoReMaSteR
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 55
If you did a turbo system right with the solstice u could push 400+ horse power with the 4 cylinder. I dont know why you people want to drop v8's into small cars. All it would do is unbalance the weight distribution.

All u have to do is look at cars like the s13's and s14/15's to see that a turbo four can kick the can off a v8.
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Old 04-25-2005   #7
protools4
 
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the ecotec has mad potential on boost. If GM ever produces a turbo hard top my money is on the table. but at 170 flywheel hp the car is too weak to own. I live in the socialist state of calif. so a turbo kit or a v8 swap is a non option anyways.

as for weight the ls1 is a fairly light motor and against a turbo intercooled 4 with fuel management boost managment anti detonation injection parts and piggy back computer and pluming you would net near even

besides I'm not a 50/50 weight snob

my big heavy 96 impala destroys at the autocross!
everyones laughing and pointing when I drive in.
I'm laughting my ass off when I leave after beating vipers
vettes and miatas.

as far as install cost i do all my own work.

TAD
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Old 04-25-2005   #8
8power
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Ah, i leave for a few days and the flame-war begins...psycho, I love people like you that start out with "no offense" when they're some of the most offensive people around.

"Ask any experienced mechanic...." I guess that would include me after working for Modern American Sports Cars, Vinci Hi-Performance, racing since I was 12 years old, and holding a master mechanics certificate. As a tech at M.A.S.C. I was the brain behind many LT1/LS1 swaps including one into a miata. The miata is of similar size to the Solstice and the gains were amazing. On top of that, there was no cutting, massaging, etc. etc. of the car to get it to fit. Different motor and tranny mounts available in kit form was all it took.

Weight? An LS1 weighs 71 lbs more than a 2.2L Ecotec. Add on the cam phazers and what-not for the 2.4L and I'm guessing it gets even closer.

Balance? I've worked closely w/ BMR Fabrication before on the Pontiac GTOs and am confident that a relocation of the battery, possibly a tubular K-member, and a few other "tweaks," and the weight distribution will be 100% compensated for.

Cost? Anyone w/ even remote connections to the auto industry (aka-they surf LS1 boards) can get an LS1/T56 tranny in used, but very good condition for less than $2,000-2,500. Try finding a good turbo kit for less then $3500. BTW, 305hp was an extreme underating. Many stock f-bodies made 300-315 to the wheels. Add a Thunder Racing T-rex cam (still very streetable) to a stock LS1 for less than 500 bucks and you're looking at 450rwhp without having even popped the heads off! I won't factor in labor because working on whatever car I have is a hobby, I wasn't asking if I could get Boyd Coddington to do it for me. Plan on my total initial investment to be less than $4k, minus the sale of the original drivetrain for a minimum of $2,500, but probably more like $5k, and I'll be claiming capital gains (or at least buying a nitrous kit) for my trouble. Since LS1s love nitrous (my previous f-bod went 10.80 @ 128 on a sealed motor w/ a 250 DP shot), I figure you'll catch met with your turbo'd ecotec after $4 Gs for a turbo kit, and another $Gs to get the motor to hold up to the 30 #s of boost you'll need.

So, "no offense" squirrel, but have fun in your stock car with your cushy warranty. Mine will be winning races, car shows, and general just be "fun" which is afterall what most car guys are looking for. Before you go and start flaming again, I still love you psycho squirrel, but please, let people ask the questions they want to ask without tearing it apart. Meanwhile, I'll go ahead and put you on the pre-order list for the 1.3L diesel swap so you can get that gas mileage up there.
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Old 04-25-2005   #9
psychosquirrel
 
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Ls1 fanboys are more delirious than others I suppose.

You now claim that you will put a USED ls1 into a NEW car to save cost? Wouldnt you rather have a new engine, a fully dressed crate LS1 would raise your price quotes a bit. And are you sure that the t56 will fit into a car designed for a aisin 5-speed? Why dont you do your homework, these arent lego pieces that all fit together perfectly, they dont have the same dimensions. You need to get a purpose built driveshaft (likely) for the length of the Solstice as well as a new diff imo.

MAJOR work would be needed for this type of swap, I am being honest here (no flame) add up your time working and multiply it by the going rate, this swap WON'T be cheap.

That being said, if you COULD get the LS1 into this car, and under the hood (another problem you havent addressed) You would still have your hands full getting custom fit headers and a proper exhaust fitted, including cats, but I guess you'd just run straight pipes out by the rocker panels like NASCAR? Likely, since this is your captain caveman "hot-rod".

As for the ls1 fitting, you can still PROVE IT, go ahead try it! I'm not going to stop your dreams. . . I just doubt that this transformation will be as EASY as you imply. (again just me being honest here)

As for my own tastes, I don't drive a stock car, I could care less about warranties (unless it's needed for repairs immediately after purchase), no I don't give a $hit about fuel economy and I will be waiting for the uprated version, a Solstice GXP, likely to come out with a factory turbo, i wouldn't waste my money on a aftermarket turbo that can't possibly work on a ecotec that uses >10:1 compression.

As for flaming, you should think twice before adding fule to the fire..... No, I'm not interested in a 1.3L diesel either....but I guess your momma drank about that much diesel while she was pregnant with you.
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Old 04-25-2005   #10
8power
 
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hehe, you're a good sport squirrel. Actually that aisin is the same that's in the colorado which my friend happens to own. Crawled under and did some measurements, looks like it will fit. The LS1 is relatively "hood" friendly particularly when the vette accesory setup is used. My only concern on clearance was accessories side to side because the PS pump sticks out a bit. That's no problem though if I can adapt the electronic ps that comes stock. As for custom headers, that'll come in round 2....iow i'll use manifolds. I'd like to get ahold of some LS7 manifolds but we'll have to see what the availability on those is. a custom y-pipe back exhaust is nothing my buddy that owns a muffler shop can't handle, and my envisioned setup includes a substantial muffler (if it will fit) w/ an exit in the factory location to keep it a sleeper.

Nope, it won't go together like legos.....there is one huge thing I'm worried about, that being the electronics. Keep in mind I won't be able to do a piggy back setup since the solstice uses the new 32-bit digital sensor read. That may be the one prohibitive thing about this.

Yeah, I really don't have a beef with using a used motor to keep the funds down. Once I fab up the pieces, put it in kit form, and see if there's a market for it perhaps I'll buy a crate-motor setup.
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Old 04-25-2005   #11
stonebreaker
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11
Tad! Kay Possa, amigo!

Psycho, you're obviously not a hotrodder. The goal of a v8 conversion is NOT price. Not even close. Thousands of people drive vettes. How many v8 solstices will there ever be?

You dohc guys don't seem to understand just how heavy the dohc design is. As was mentioned above, the LS1 isn't that much heavier than the ecotec. For example, the dohc head weighs 60 lbs. BOTH heads together on the LS1 only weigh 42 lbs. Both engines have one crank, and both cranks have 4 throws. Plus, the v8 is inherently better balanced - I'd be willing to bet the LS1 crank is lighter due to lighter counterweights. The dohc engine is taller and top-heavy compared to the v8.

The dohc design is heavy for its displacement, but the advantage is that it makes more hp per liter. By making more hp per liter, the power requirement can be met with less displacement, thus better mileage can be achieved; a big deal with CAFE regs. However, there's no displacement limit on the street, so why limit myself? Anyway, the LS2 is coming out next year with variable displacement, so if I were concerned about gas mileage (I'm not), even that hurdle is being overcome.

As far as a new vs. a used LS1, WHY would you ever want a new engine as a donor? It doesn't make sense financially, and it doesn't make sense performance-wise. With a used motor, you have money left over for things like heads, cam, exhaust, and you end up with more horsepower than a new engine.

Lastly, in addition to being heavy, dohc motors take up a lot of space. Take a look at these pics that I got off http://www.vorshlag.com :

Lamer dohc engine:




LS1 donor motor:




Doing the v8 conversion is basically following in Carroll Shelby's footprints.
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Old 04-25-2005   #12
protools4
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9
what up stonebreaker :-)

I want a light car to compliment my lazer guided sledge hammer aka Impala SS. But GM castrated the Solstice... I heard rumors of a GT hartop in 2007.

There is no way in hell I can get a 454 LS1 Solstice pass the CARB.

TAD out
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Old 04-25-2005   #13
psychosquirrel
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I understand that you guys really want a V8 solstice but I don't see the NEED to go through all that work when you could buy a perfectly good C5 convertible and drive it daily without any headaches? Good luck on the conversion, IF you do complete it.

I do not disagree about a v8 in terms of performance, I just dont think that EVERY car needs to have a V8. There are ALOT of Camaro fans out there still angry at GM for producing the Solstice instead of a new camaro/firebird. And I think that alot of the "hot-rodders" are missing out on the simple, low cost, fun to drive aspects of this car. Instead the hot-rodders want to focus only on the flat out, straight line performance of what they think this car should be.

Don't get me wrong laying down rubber is tons of fun, but I don't consider it to be the be all end all of performance. A turbo GT/GXP with 200-250 HP would suit me and most drivers just fine considering the Solstices design and purpose; Low cost, High fun roadster, it is NOT a "sportscar" like a Corvette. I think people have to make that distinction.

If I wanted a screaming hot V8 performance car from Pontiac I'd buy a GTO.
If I want a HOT roadster that everyone drools over at stop lights I'd buy a Solstice.
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Old 04-26-2005   #14
stonebreaker
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychosquirrel
I understand that you guys really want a V8 solstice but I don't see the NEED to go through all that work when you could buy a perfectly good C5 convertible and drive it daily without any headaches? Good luck on the conversion, IF you do complete it.

I do not disagree about a v8 in terms of performance, I just dont think that EVERY car needs to have a V8. There are ALOT of Camaro fans out there still angry at GM for producing the Solstice instead of a new camaro/firebird. And I think that alot of the "hot-rodders" are missing out on the simple, low cost, fun to drive aspects of this car. Instead the hot-rodders want to focus only on the flat out, straight line performance of what they think this car should be.

Don't get me wrong laying down rubber is tons of fun, but I don't consider it to be the be all end all of performance. A turbo GT/GXP with 200-250 HP would suit me and most drivers just fine considering the Solstices design and purpose; Low cost, High fun roadster, it is NOT a "sportscar" like a Corvette. I think people have to make that distinction.

If I wanted a screaming hot V8 performance car from Pontiac I'd buy a GTO.
If I want a HOT roadster that everyone drools over at stop lights I'd buy a Solstice.
You're missing the point. Cost is only secondary. The primary goal is to change the car to suit the individual, not for the individual to fit into the car's market demographic. If you like the ecotec engine, great - keep it in the car. But what if I like the vette's performance but the soltice's styling? What then?

Forty-some years ago, Carroll Shelby took a fun little 4-banger roadster and dropped a gigantic v8 in it. I bet you know the name of that car. Do you know the name of the original roadster? If so, why?

I choose to have the best of both worlds - great looks and great performance. The handling of the car will not be affected much, if at all, by the addition of the v8, since it is very close in weight to the ecotec; and may actually be improved since it will lower the center of gravity of the car.

The v8, as mentioned above, only weighs 70 lbs more than the ecotec. The supercharger and intercooler add another 30 lbs, bringing the difference down to 40 lbs. Add in the heat exchanger, tubing, and coolant needed for the intercooler, and you've added another 10-15 lbs, bringing the weight difference to within 30 lbs. I seriously doubt anyone but Mario Andretti will be able to feel a 30 lb difference in the car.

So, again, if you want a 4-banger, go for it. But other than gas mileage, there is absolutely no performance cost associated with going to the v8. None. In addition, I have a car that has been customized to my taste, rather than being forced to accept a car that I don't like 100%.
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Old 04-26-2005   #15
protools4
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9
sunbeam alpine
sunbeam tiger
later the Shelby Cobra

Oh and BTW Stoney and squirrel
I have destoyed original Cobras at the autocross in my Impala despite 255 275 dot tire combo!
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