I've come to the realization that there is no way I can wait a year and a half for the solstice, and then another half a year to a year for the good version.

I'm going to buy a car in about 6 months and I don't know what direction to go. I could go used or new, but I'm set on a sports/ sporty car.

I'm thinking about the new Mustang, Nissan 350Z (I love this car), Honda S2000, Impreza WRX/ Sti (although it is ugly), GTO (although it looks like a Grand Prix), Audi TT, and you get the picture

What would you buy in about 6 months? And don't say Miata, I wouldn't be caught dead in that little chick car.

1. List all important attributes for you (reliability, handling, etc.)
2. Give each attribute a percentage weight, so that the sum of all equal 100%
3. Rate each car according to each attribute.
4. Multiply rating times weighting and sum for each car.
5. Buy the car with the greatest score.

Or you could just drive each one, and buy the one which gives you the most enduring "permagrin".

Your choices are all over the place. 2WD vs. AWD, convertible vs. fixed-roof, 4 Dr vs. 2 Dr. You'll have a tough time making any decision until you narrow down some of these factors.

-Andrew

You might also want to consider the Mazda RX-8. From what I've read, it is a very good all around sports car.

I've come to the realization that there is no way I can wait a year and a half for the solstice, and then another half a year to a year for the good version.

I'm going to buy a car in about 6 months and I don't know what direction to go. I could go used or new, but I'm set on a sports/ sporty car.

I'm thinking about the new Mustang, Nissan 350Z (I love this car), Honda S2000, Impreza WRX/ Sti (although it is ugly), GTO (although it looks like a Grand Prix), Audi TT, and you get the picture

What would you buy in about 6 months? And don't say Miata, I wouldn't be caught dead in that little chick car.

JP; Looks like you have already answered your own question! "Nissan 350Z (I love this car)" Go with what moves you! Let us know how you like it. :thumbsup:

Lots of good used sports cars for new Solstice money...I've noticed some low mileage C5s dipping close to 20K with the C6 on the horizon. Some interesting M3s in that range as well. Any car that has you saying "although..." should be crossed off the list, IMHO. With so many choices in the market, there's no sense compromising. As Chip said above, you gotta go with what you love.

-Stephen M

I had to rule out the RX-8 due to the fact that I'm 6'3'' and I don't fit in it very well.

Other than that, I like the M3 suggestion.

Here's what I really want:

Handling (I don't like to slow down for turns), Horse Power, AWD (RWD is acceptable), Drop Top, and Curb Appeal.

Even though technically I can afford to go out and buy a new 350Z, I would rather not do that. I'm going to try to only spend between $25,000 and $30,000.

I also really like the Lancer Evolution but it's a four door and has no curb appeal.

Anymore suggestions?

Hmmm...I was thinking 20k originally, 25-30 opens up a few more options. Given your list of wants, once car immediately comes to mind:

Porsche Boxster.

Hits a home run in terms of handling and curb appeal. More power can be had for the same money, but the boxster has "enough", I would say. Low mileage ones pop up in the high 20's every now and then.

If AWD is more of a priority, you might be able to snag a 911 Carrera 4, but I don't think you can get a convertible Carrera 4 under 30k. Maybe, but I think you'd be looking at a much older/higher mileage car than the boxster.

-Stephen M

[QUOTE=JohnPaulPSU]I had to rule out the RX-8 due to the fact that I'm 6'3'' and I don't fit in it very well.


Now that's an issue I am concerned about with the Solstice. I am 6'1" and I hope waiting for this car doesn't become a disappointment. I am very fond of the S2000, but there are some issues with the tranny and rear end that are still showing up with the 03's. It could be that these are driver induced by hard use, but I am still wary. I've driven a couple and almost bought an 02, but could not find one at a price that I thought was fair. The so called market adjustment on these cars are a rip. :banasex0r

Look at the VW R32. Awd, 240hp and less than the 350z or RX8. If I was buying used you can get Z3's in the 20's in great shape.

I saw that VW r32 at the D.C auto show at the beginning of this year and I'm not really a VW fan but I really liked that car for some reason. Then I tried to look it up on the net and for some reason I came to the conclusion that it wasn't going to be offered in the states. I guess I'll look again.

http://www.vwvortex.com/

R32 info can be found on this forum.

The R32 is a great car. I fit in it easily, lot's of room. Also very comfortable. Those seats are awesome. And when I started it up.. man, you gotta hear that car! I just wanted to drop it in first and take off. I didn't drive it though, because I'm not in the market for a couple months and I didn't want to waste the poor salesmans time. I just wanted to see it again in person and see if I fit. Also the sticker price would be about 32K after tags tax title.

In my opinion this is too much for this car. It is a great car, but it looks like a golf when you get down to it. People say that looks aren't everything it's what's inside that counts, but we all know that's bullshit.

On a side note: I'm happy to say that I might be in the market in two months instead of six. I can't wait. You see when I was 18 (back in '96) I bought a brand new Pontiac Grand Am. I paid it off two years later and it is still the only car I have ever owned. 8 years later (4 in the Air Force and 4 at Penn State) I finally have the money to buy a new car. For 8 years I've carried that ugly hunk of metal under my ass..... (for those of you who know your pulp fiction)

It's hard finding the perfect car.

Personally it think the RX-8 is alittle short on torque...i test drove one. it's very smooth power delivery...but weak in the low revs. Not sure if i like winding my car up to 9000rpm. Wait till the end of the year for a mazdaspeed RX-8 I've heard it's coming.

I've seen a few write ups and a top gear movie of the R32 golf and it's not really very fast for how much HP it's got...6.5 seconds...? 240 HP ? i'd expect it to be alot lower. But it's not cause it's a chubby little wubby. Sure it's AWD...but it still looks like a golf. Yawn...

If your into handlling and looks ... i've seen multiple vids of the 350z...it has under steer issues and the Stability control interferes with driftng into corners(assuming you'd be on the track). Plus i think the interior is cheap and dont really like it (nissans have never impressed me.)

I think the S2000 would be the one that would smoke all of that stuff cept the m3 in a straight line. S2000 is light. Gotta zippy engine providing you like to REV...and it's great in the turns. Better than boxster z4 rx8 pretty much every thing in it's class. Plus i like the interior...and it's transmission is great.

my 2 cents :bouncy:

Personally, I'd probably look at a Crossfire, just like something different, sporty but has class. Sat in one and thought it was pretty nice.

S2000 or Z350 would probably be another choice.

The new Mustang would be another.

Allanon

the Crossfire is pretty much a re-badged SLK 320...same engine...same weak chassis. same transmission...another not so good thing. I like the styling...but the car it's built off of isn't a drivers car. It's a chic merc mobile :thumbsup:

And the poor mustang that is coming out has a solid rear axle that trucks use. It's not going to be a super g pulling car in the corners with that type of suspension. The cobra or bullet is going to add independent rear suspension from what i hear...but you'll have to wait 4 that.

I'm gonna buy an s2000 i think. I liked the Vtec in the 2000 prelude SH i drove. So this thing is going to only be better.
;)

here are my thoughts on the other cars listed.

Chrysler Crossfire. I love the looks but at only 220 HP I don't think so.

MAzda RX-8 - Car and drivers 10 best. slightly odd looking, and I don't fit inside the car. Fuck those short little japs.

Honda S2000 - car and drivers ten best If I change my mind it will probably be to this car.

Infiniti G35 - better interior thatn 350Z, more refined, has a back seat. My brother and sister are both possibly buying this car in the near future

Porshe Boxster - only 220 Hp I believe - give me a break

I saw a video filmed in japan with a 350Z an M3 an S2000 a boxster and a skyline GtR here is what happened:

the Nissan 350Z held them all off, until of course the skyline started trying then he was gone. But the M3 was too heavy in the turns and about the same power in the straight away. The lighter S2000 cornered much better but couldn't hang coming out of the turns. And last and least the Boxster sucked ass. It Couldn't hang at all and the guy driving was joking about the interior being nice at least. These cars were stock except the 350Z had a transmission cooler I believe.

This is why I'm leaning heavily toward the 350Z. Also it's the only car that comes in "sunset Lemans" and it's the best looking by far.

In the race above the guy behind the Z (driving the M3) said it looked like he had understeer issues but the driver of the Z said it was fine. Also that VDC vehicle dynamic control can be turned off.

MINI Cooper S

While the Mini is not a roadster, it has more performance than your smile muscles can ever hope to cope with. And the new supercharged Cooper S convertible will go on sale late summer as a 2005.

The Mini appeals to everyone - young, old, rich or poor.

Engineering and assembly quality courtesy of BMW. Add in peerless handling and road manners with gargantuan levels of grip.

I've thought about the mini Cooper... I don't question the performance aspect of that machine it's just the looks and size of it that bothers me. If I wasn't 6'3'' tall then It might not seem so small. The sad thing is, I fit in the mini easily whereas I have to almost slouch so that my head doesn't touch the roof of a 350Z and RX-8. I don't know though... if they do a good job with the convertible top I might take a second look at it.

I like the idea of a used BMW convertable but I would want to have at least a 330 series. The 325 is too weak.

the Mini...especially the convertible is alittle much for what you get IMO. Sure it looks cute and it is sorta sporty to drive.

But in the end it's still FWD and for almost $40k canadian with a full load of features it's pushin the limit in $$ town.

For 40k u could geta 350z or a rx8 ... u dont fit in them granted but there still much better performance deal than the MINI.

:bandit: How much are you lookin to spend again ?

You're right I wasn't thinking that the Mini was FWD. There is no way I could get that.

I'm looking to spend 25K but I could go to 30k if I fell in love with a car.

The newest car that I'm going to look into is the Corvette, C5 of course. I never thought about myself as a corvette man but I played golf with one of the bigwigs of my company the other day and after seeing him drive away in his vette I changed my opinion. They are fine automobiles that will blow away all the other cars mention so far in this thread (except maybe the Skyline GTR).

I can get a 2000 model with about 30,000 miles for 30,000 dollars, or I can get a convertible with 50,000 miles for the same price. Can you fucking believe that I'm having a hard time finding this car in a stick? WTF? It's all these old pople who buy them and don't DRIVE them the way they were meant to be. That's the end of my rant have a nice day.

JP; On the C-5 watch out for the late run model 00's and the early and mid-model 01's as they have a oil consumption problems caused by piston ring issue. See a vette site for specific info. on cars involved. The general has offered to replace the rings on these cars if they fit the general's oil consumption profile. Many owners don't want Mr Goodwrench to tear apart their engine, (I can't blame them!) so many of these cars will NOT have the work performed. As a result there will be many on the used car market with no one knowing of their problem. Just a heads up.

Interesting comparison of the RX-8, S2k, & 350Z Track Model over at Motor Trend. Yes, that's the order they ranked them in, and it's also the order in terms of increasing price as tested ($27,200 $33,840 $34,890). Did I mention that the RX-8 has 4 seats?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_three/index.html

JohnPaulPSU, did the RX-8 you test drove have the moon roof? In Canada, you can get the GT without the moon roof.

I didn't test drive the RX-8. I have sat in two of them and both had the moon roof. Without the Moon roof my head would have been in constant contact with the headliner.

And yes it does have two back seats but have you sat in them? I had to put the driver seat all the way up to get back there and there still wasn't enough room. And my head hit the roof in the back seat, but I expect that to happen in almost any car.

I saw a GTO yesterday and it was impressive. Much better looking than in the pictures. One thing about it though was that the hood doesn't match up with the front bumber, it has an over bite. Why can't Pontiac ever get that right. I might actually consider a GTO now that I have seen it. Only because I get a GM discount through my brother.

And yes it does have two back seats but have you sat in them?Yes. I didn't mean to imply that the RX-8 would seat 4 adults comfortably on a cross country trip. Still, I'm impressed that the RX-8 compares well to the S2K and 350Z, but costs quite a bit less and in a pinch can serve as a family car for Dads with a couple of kids. Reminds me a little of the early Mustang in that respect. It will be interesting to see how the Saturn Relay compares to the RX-8.

Incidentally, there's a story that in 1956 Bob Cumberford, Tony Lapine, and Stan Mott of the GM Styling department proposed a 4-passenger sports car called the Mustang. Harley Earl told them to stick to design work. IIRC, the Mustang sold over a million cars in its first 2 1/2 years, while it took 40 years for the 2-seater Corvette to reach that number.

Too bad the 8 won't work for you but I thought others reading this thread might be interested in Motor Trend's comparison.

To drive about town and haul other people the RX-8 is great for the price...and the HP is quite good considering it is alot less than even an S2000. It's comfort and interior are great as well. Performance is where it lacks.

In a couple best motoring vids i own...the Rx-8 simply can't keep up. it has more body roll than even the heavier 350z and not enough torque to keep it going up inclines as fast. So as a track car the RX-8 is less of a performer. But if your not track bound i'd take the high spinning RX-8 over teh S2000. I've driven both. and the rx8 was more entertaining to wind up. Less noisey .. and with the top up i couldn't see out the back of the s2000.

The s2000 needs to be a beefed up to a 2.4 or 2.5 litre just so it has 170 lbs of torque at at LEAST 4500 rpm. After driving away in my prelude i was like...hmm my car is punchier than that thing...

anyways...If u want a track car...350z or s2000...if you want a livable car...more the rx8 or the 350z. although the 350z interior is less impressive than the rx imo. :bouncy:

Keep in mind that Motor Trend was comparing the 350z Track Model (lightweight forged-aluminum wheels, larger-diameter Brembo brakes, limited-slip differential, and sport-tuned "harsh" suspension) with a base RX-8. As GoReMaSteR said above, wait for the MazdaSpeed version (it will still have 2 more seats than the Z).

Right now, I'd consider a Chevy Equinox.

Can anyone tell me 1 good reason not to buy a 2004 Pontiac GTO? And don't say anything about the way it looks because I have seen it in person and it looks gooood. I'm just interested in anything anybody might have heard about it. Thanks.

I would wait until the next GTO, built in N.America. The current GTO has some issues, brakes are not that good iirc from the Test Drive on Speedvision. I have seen good and bad GTO's, it looks better in certain colors imo, so choose wisely. That being said, it's a great cruiser, with a sweet exhaust, just don't get hosed by a dealer marking it up! Wait 3-4 months and those dealers will be begging you to buy it and throw in a rebate.

From what i can tell of the GTO is that it's fairly heavy. Gets poor gasmileage. It is very overpriced at 33k American or so...plus it has almost no options. Comparibly you can get a V-8 Mustang for 24k.

As far as exclusivity goes you'd be driving something different for sure. But the car looks too much like a doll'd up Grandam/Cavalier to me. Even if they do a judge option to it and add 100 scoops and vents it'll prolly still just look like a SRT-4.

Prolly a good drag or drift car :D I've read that they are doinga make over on the car cause it isn't selling well ...600 and 800 units in the last two months or something like that according to AutoWeek.

It's up to you. But if i had the choice i'd keep my bux and go with a new Stang 2005 or wait for the Solstice if your going for bang 4 your buck and want domestic. :banasex0r

what do you guys think of the new Mini cooper convertible??

a great cruiser car. looks cute. But it's FWD...still not bad though.

i know it dosent look as sporty as the solstice...but the mini coopper conv def looks better than the miata(imo).... although it's a "cute" car...i'll probably get the same reaction from people when i drive it...heck, it'lll probably be more fun than other roadsters..... :thumbsup:

I just got an email from my brother regarding the GTO. Basically it said they were selling half as well as planned and in a month or two when there is no doubt that the movie "last drive" and summer weather is not going to improve sales then they will bring on the rebates and finacing deals.

Also the car is heavy (only 300 pounds more than a mustang) and braking isn't excellent, although I never read anywhere that it was anything less than acceptable. And there is nothing wrong with the body of the car that a body kit wouldn't fix. Just look at the Autocross version and you'll see a great looking GTO.

The things stopping me from buying today are:
1. possible price cuts and deals in the near future
2. redesigned body for 2005 making my model the worst and killing resale
value
3. there is going to be a new engine for 2005

As for it being overpriced, I get the GSM price of 29,829 which isn't two bad for a 4 seat performance machine with a corvette engine and transmission.

And the reason it doesn't have any options is because so much comes standard. Not that next years model won't have any... I'm sure it will since they have one more year to work on them.

"...a 4 seat performance machine with a corvette engine and transmission."

JP; Your statement about the GTO is 50% correct at best. While it does have some parts from the corvette parts bin it is not (imho) a four seat performance car. It's only a stop gap measure that Pontiac tried to pull off until some real performance cars could be brought into their line up. There are three GTO's sitting at my local dealership now that have been there a month or more. I think the word is out that this car is not a real GTO, only some bean counters idea of a way to use a trusted name from the past to sell mediocrity. I've know GTO's...This thing ain't no GTO! :mad:

I read a report on it and it only gets .82 in the skid pad...why is it that american car companies can't make good handling cars.

I'd wait for things from other companies personally. A rebadged holden isn't a GTO. Even if they wanna call it that. :o

Is has an LS1 and it does 0-60 in 5.3 and the 1/4 mile in 13.8. And that is the 2004 model. The 2005 is going to have an ls2 with 395 HP.

Basically I think that some people can't get past the looks of the car. Maybe you have never heard the phrase "don't judge a book by it's cover" Maybe you would say that the bentley isn't a performance car either. As for weather it is a "GTO" as defined by the old people who used to drive one... I don't care. The Nissan 350Z is a pure performance car, few would doubt that, but the GTO would beat it in a staight line race.. that has to count for something. And I believe the 200 ft skidpad rating is .90 (at least that is what I found)

A rebadged Tempest with a better engine can be a GTO so why not a rebadged Monaro with a better engine. The General made the GTO and as the creater says what is and what isn't a GTO. Not me or you.

My prophecy is that the 2005 will come out with the LS2, redesigned body panels, twin dual exhaust, and then people will convert. Until then I will be saving my downpayment, keeping my fingers crossed, and as always looking for something better to come along.

Is has an LS1 and it does 0-60 in 5.3 and the 1/4 mile in 13.8. And that is the 2004 model. The 2005 is going to have an ls2 with 395 HP.

Basically I think that some people can't get past the looks of the car. Maybe you have never heard the phrase "don't judge a book by it's cover" Maybe you would say that the bentley isn't a performance car either. As for weather it is a "GTO" as defined by the old people who used to drive one... I don't care. The Nissan 350Z is a pure performance car, few would doubt that, but the GTO would beat it in a staight line race.. that has to count for something. And I believe the 200 ft skidpad rating is .90 (at least that is what I found)

A rebadged Tempest with a better engine can be a GTO so why not a rebadged Monaro with a better engine. The General made the GTO and as the creater says what is and what isn't a GTO. Not me or you.

My prophecy is that the 2005 will come out with the LS2, redesigned body panels, twin dual exhaust, and then people will convert. Until then I will be saving my downpayment, keeping my fingers crossed, and as always looking for something better to come along.

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0405_odd/index4.html

I'll have to take MotorTrends #'s or another major publication :) Their SkidPad #'s are for the GTO and the Merc they were comparing it against. .82 for the GTO and .83 for the Merc. But when it comes down to whether i believe a car emboddies the name a company decides to throw on it...well it is up to me.

I believe the New 2005 Mustang has the look and feel of the mustangs I love. The older ones !

When i look at the new GTO...it's just GM cashing in on rebadging another car. It's like how Subaru has allowed Saab to make a model based completely off the Impreza, now called the Saab 9-2X their saying it's a saab cause the outside mildly resembles a Saab, under it's an Impreza. Except Saab isn't trying to cashin on a name that many people can recognize, it's a completely ne model.

GTO has the history and lineage of the muscle cars of old. When u think GTO and are a purist. U dont think Hmmm...all i could ask for would be....

1. Rebadge a Holden Monero.
2. Throw in the parts bin LS1 from the vette.
3. Take the Design cues from the 95 grand am and Cavalier and design a very dull car.
4. Have close to no options available. Incl no sunroof.
5. Make it handle like a minivan.

I can pickup a 350z for $26,930.00 with 280 Horsepower and it will kill the GTO in the corners no problem. The GTO barely beats it in 0-60 and quarter mile again it is only marginally faster.

GTO is special to alot of people, whether 'u' care or not. The new GTO to me would have meant a completely new design built from the ground up perhaps off the new C6 Vette Chassis with a world class design. Much like the Solstice, it was done right. The GTO is a cash in. Just my Opinion. :bandit:

So when the next Cavalier gets rebadged as a vette...I'll see u in line for the deposit right ? :thumbsup:

I agree! Pontiac could have done a better job all the way around, but I believe they were in a hurry to get the platform to market. I guess they figured no one would look past the "Vette" engine and the GTO nameplate. I sure hope they do a better job on the Solstice! If they try that smoke and mirrors route on the Solstice, well...I will be looking at other options.

not sure what smoke and mirrors they could do with the solstice - we know what it looks like, what the basic engine will be, etc. unless they street price is $5000 more then expected, that would kill it.

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So when the next Cavalier gets rebadged as a vette...I'll see u in line for the deposit right ? :thumbsup:

Not quite, I'm not after the name, just the car.

I have never owned an "original" GTO. And personnally I wouldn't want one. Those cars didn't have the power, handling, safety, or anywhere near the refinement of todays cars. The word GTO is not "special" to me. If you called the car by any other name I wouldn't care, and I would still plan on buying one.

Compared to a Z, it is bigger. That fact explains why it doesn't handle as well and also why I want it. I'm prepared to take the handling hit in exchange for 4 seats and enough headroom so that my head isn't in constant contact with the headliner.

As far as performance goes... I have read a lot of reviews and done a lot of research on this car, and I haven't found anyone complaining. Except for the people who want a 3,700 pound car to handle like a 3,000 pound car.

Also, what's wrong with taking an LS1 out of the "parts bin"? Do you think they should have designed a new 8 cylinder engine for the GTO specifically? I think that would only increase cost, as would designing a new GTO from scratch. And rebadging... why is that even an issue? Like Shakespeare said "a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet" . If they rebadged the mustang as the m47 and sold it in Australia, would they refuse to buy it just because it was "rebadged"?

I'll cave into you on the styling issue... although I don't think it looks bad. They definitely made a mistake when they made it look like so tame. I think they realize this and are in the process of fixing it.

Also you are right about the "cash in" They tryed to save money in order to maximize their profit. (that's what businesses do) They cut too many corners trying to get this car out as an 04 model however and that hurt them pretty bad judging from your reaction as well as those of other classic GTO loyalists.

BTW, I agree the 05 Mustang looks great, I might look into that car when more details are available. They definitely did right with that car. Mustang might be one car name that I do care about. But GTO... Pontiac stole it from Ferrari in the first place so it's not like it was original, not like the Mustang

I'm tired of defending the GTO since I'm the one who asked for reasons not to buy it in the first place.

So, let's talk about the Mustang...Does anyone know anything? release date? performance? price? do you think the convertible will be offered right away?

Personally if u put the '05 Stang beside the GTO...there is no question which one looks better. And since the V-8 stang will weigh less than the gto in v8 form then i think it should be just as fast given the 50 hp difference.

Plus the Mustang will be cheaper, hopefully 25-26k or less for V-8. Interior looks great in both IMO...I like the stangs new tunable coloured lights on the speedo's n stuff.

On looks and performance and price i think the new '05 Mustang kills the GTO :thumbsup: but maybe thats just me. hehe :soap:

Plus the Stangs engine is overhead cam design and not a push rod. I think it'll be a bit smoother. with 3 Valves per cylinder. :bouncy:

I have some news about the 05 GTO if anyone is interested....

It is getting the LS2 with 400 HP, and there will be an option for the hood scoops. There are also some other things such as brake upgrades, and other minor differencees.

This is the car for me. I think at this point that even if the Solstice was coming out tomorrow I would still wait for the 05 GTO.

I think it was car and driver that compared the 2004 Mustang cobra to the 2004 GTO and they called it a tie, although the cobra edged the GTO slightly on the Perormance aspect. However, in 2005 no stang will be able to touch a 400 HP GTO. I can't wait to order mine. I'll keep you updated, but the way it's looking now a 400 HP red GTO with red leather interior is in my future.

Although a 2004 GTO would be tempting (I personally love the car - I sat inside one the other day and didn't want to get out), I can't quite afford one (unless the dealer gave me a hell of a deal). Therefore, if I needed a new car in the next 6 months, I'd be leaning towards an Equinox. It gets gas mileage comparable to my current S-10, I like the stlying, and it has great utility.

SUV's suck