Hi. New member/first-time poster here.....

This board is great! I've been trying to get more info re: Solstice, and this forum has already answered many questions.

If indeed the car will come in two powertrain options, and assuming that they will both be available within a year of each other, it will be hard for me to decide between a base 170 hp, naturally-aspirated, 5-speed model that weighs in at 2800 lbs. and @ $18K, verses a 240 hp, turbo-ed, T-56 6-speed model that weighs in at 3100 and @ $25K. As much as I enjoy and swear by my current T-56 6-speed, at 3100 lbs. Solstice is coming close to the 3300 lbs. my Firehawk weighs, and I dislike the thought of turbo-boost delays. And a $7k price difference is significant---at least to me.

If, as someone else has already said on this board, the 170 hp engine has close to 170 ft./lbs. of torque, that may bring about enough of a spirited ride to keep me happy.

How are the others of you weighing these two options in your purchase plans?

I sort of agree with you. If it's got enough pep at 170 hp I'll probably stick with that. I drive a 90 Miata now and it's no where near 170. Once in a while I wish it had more oomph to it, but power isn't the point of a roadster, so I've been very content with what it has. 170 on the Solstice should be more than enough.

On the other hand, I'm past 40 now. It seems like it might be time for a mid-life-crisis-gratuitous-power-to-pump-the-ego trip, so I might just go for the supercharger.

I can understand your thinking too. I too owned a Miata, a 96, which had 133 hp, and while it wasn't a smoker, it was frisky and fun and "one with the road".

If Solstice can handle the twisties like the Miata did, then 170 hp should do the trick (assuming it comes in at 2800 lbs. or less). Of course, I will also have a piece of big ol' American iron in the garage for when this 54-year-old really wants to pound pavement and smoke 'em. Given that, I could be quite happy with a slightly less powerful 'vert roadster experience--especially one with the aesthetics of the Solstice!

I was originally leaning towards the 240HP version, but now I'm inclinded to see final production numbers for weight, power, and cost of both versions before deciding. My current car has 200HP/200 ft-lb and weighs right around 2800 lbs, so I was thinking I would want at least a modest upgrade, performance wise, with my next car. I'll test drive the 170 HP version as soon as it's available, though, and I suspect I might find it comparable enough to my current car to sign on the dotted line. I'm not sure I could justify the weight/cost premium for the boosted car, if indeed it does come in 300 or so pounds heavier with a ~$7K premium. I was hoping for maybe 75-100 pounds of weight gain and a $3-4k premium. So put me down as "Wait and see" for now.

-Stephen M

I guess another issue to consider is where in the rev band each motor delivers its peak power. If the 170 HP is made up in the higher rev range its power may not be as useful as is the case for the blown motor. Of course that assumes that the SC'ed motor is in its sweet spot sooner and that the increase in torque will produce more pull through the entire usable rev range. I've never owned a car with a SC so it will be a new learning experience for me.

Chip---Pontiac is now talking turbo-charging the engine, NOT super-charging it. That is troubling to me personnaly.

Stephen---what car do you presently own @ 2800 lbs. with 200hp/200torque?

Mike; Yeah I've read that, but a SC is just so much easier to do and since it was Pontiac that first mentioned SC I still believe that's how they will bring the car to market. Saturn's show car featured a blown motor so I am just inclined to believe that GM is focused on a blown motor (rather than one with a turbo.) for the performance version of the Kappa platform. I guess we will have to wait and see. From a maintenance standpoint I think the SC is less trouble than a turbo. Not sure about warranty costs, but believe a turbo is more costly to replace/repair than would a SC. I might be wrong about this.

Well, if it's supercharged, that make the decision even tougher!

Stephen---what car do you presently own @ 2800 lbs. with 200hp/200torque?


Current car is a '91 Toyota MR2 turbo. The turbocharger is small-ish and the power actually comes on pretty early (I think peak torque is at 3200 RPM or so), but nevertheless I think I'd prefer a more linear power delivery in my next car. So a torquey NA or SC'd Solstice sound very appealing. Not sure if I want another turbocharged car. There's nothing wrong with it, it's more just wanting something different.

-Stephen M

Having owned and sold over 100 Miatas, I can attest that 170 hp is plenty for the average driver. The torque comes on good with these cars, particularly with the five speed rather than the six speed. If the gear spacing is well planned in a five speed configuration, this should propel the Solstice with enough grunt for the average sports car lover. Aftermarket stuff will soon appear as it did with the Miata, and owners can tailor the horsepower needs with very few mods....
Lets hope for a great gearbox, smooth shifting (tough to beat the Miata in this regard), and correct gear spacing. This will give a "sense" of speed even though the car is simply a nice sports car rather than a "basrn burner", balls out racing machine. The average sports car buyer I have found is more concerned with fun, not speed, great shifting, great handling, great braking, not so much "tire spinning" horsepower...just a few of us like that aspect...

I hope the Car and Driver report this month is not true. It said that the concept Solstice weighed out at 2865, but that the production version will be "350 lbs. heavier". Ouch! That would mean 3215 lbs. with 170 hp---I don't care what experiences have been with Miatas, that is an underpowered load! My Firehawk is 3340 lbs. but with a 345 hp LS1 V-8. The 350Z is 3200+/- but has 287 hp.

a few things I think need to be addressed:

1. the 170 HP is from a ecotec with variable valve timing, the base ecotec is already used in sunfires and cavaliers with only 140 hp iirc. This is a new technology for GM, although 10 or more years behind trend setters like honda who have perfected the system. I am sure GM engineers are learning from the partnership with toyota producing the Vibe/Matrix using the VVti engine.

2. The SC/TC engine option(s) are just that, options. The Saturn Curve and the Nomad also had ecotec engines but each with different HP ratings, 240, 220 and 170 for the base solstice. So this engine can be updated easily by GM. (240 hp solstice *fingers crossed*)

3. The weight issues are kind of too early to properly judge, and you HAVE to differentiate the production car from the concept. The concept has some LARGE differences, but not necessarily visible to the eye, weights are likely very different (imo). Thankfully GM designers didnt bastardize the car to get it to production. One example of this is at NAIAS 2004 the two cars were present, concept and production, the public AND journalists thought they were the same, many took pictures of the concept by mistake, unbeknowst to them the production car was in the background! The production car should be around 2800 lbs....a TC or SC set-up would not add 350 lbs unless its plumbing was full of lead shot.

I agree with squirrel a turbo or supercharger is not going to load up the car that much. Also there is a lot more upgrades for Turbos then supercharges that being said for us who like to tinker. I just hope that they dont bog down either car with gadgets and do hickies. Its a roadster I want it sleek, agile and fast.

Just one reminder. The C&D article did not say that the SC/TC production version would be "350 lbs. heavier" than the base model. It simply said that the production model would be 350 lbs. heavier---implying 170 hp and 3215 lbs.

Don't shoot me--I am but the messenger! :D

I can now see, from another thread on this board, that Automobile magazine has a different prospectus on the weight/power matter, saying that:

GM is trying to get 180HP from the Ecotec 2.4L

Projected weight, a little more than 2600 pounds

Projected 0 to 60 mph, in the 7.0 second range

Supercharged version available eventually.

Architecture designed to take 300HP !

Automatic trans available soon after introduction but hopefully not many will want it...

MUCH. MUCH BETTER! I hope C&D is wrongo!

I'd really like it if someone...preferably Pontiac would simply say some hard #'s on this subject as far as weight goes. I dont like relying on C&D and Automobile magazine...

I couldn't see how a car that was that small...could weigh almost as much as a v6 nissan 350Z...are they making it out of Lead and not aluminium ? I can understand the audi TT weighing 3300-3400lbs, it's a 4 seater ...but not the 2 seater solstice.

but if they decide to turbo it...then i'll get the base and super charge it instead...i like a more linear power delivery. I just test drove the SRT-4..and i dont like that whallop when just driving around - FWD SUX :tongue:

:domohit:

I'm trying to decide between 2006 Solstice 2005 (new) STang v8, which weighs the same as the solstice according to C&D ... grrr 3400 lbs ! almost equal. and a Pantera...

I'd really like it if someone...preferably Pontiac would simply say some hard #'s on this subject as far as weight goes. I dont like relying on C&D and Automobile magazine...

I couldn't see how a car that was that small...could weigh almost as much as a v6 nissan 350Z...are they making it out of Lead and not aluminium ? I can understand the audi TT weighing 3300-3400lbs, it's a 4 seater ...but not the 2 seater solstice.

.

My BMW Z3 comes in around 3000#s. All the abs, traction control, power everything all must add up. If they did make it bare bones to keep the weight down, you can bet the 07 will weigh more. Cars tend to get fatter every year.

Where I am at is.......

If the 2006 base production model (normally aspirated) can come in at under 2900 lbs. , at 170/180 hp or more, and at less than $22K nicely loaded, I am a serious customer. It's not ideal by any stretch, but given the drop-top and the car's gorgeous looks, I would likely jump.

I already own a car that gives me flaming acceleration/brutal torque, so power is not my principal concern, although the car does have to be "spunky". I am looking for a car a tad larger than a Miata, but close (if not equal) to the Miata in looks and road character.

Where I am at is.......

If the 2006 base production model (normally aspirated) can come in at under 2900 lbs. , at 170/180 hp or more, and at less than $22K nicely loaded, I am a serious customer. It's not ideal by any stretch, but given the drop-top and the car's gorgeous looks, I would likely jump.



What do you mean by "nicely loaded"? To get the price at target and keep the weight down, no power windows, no power top, basic stero and no traction control. The option I'ld like to see are abs, A/C and more importantly heated seats and steering wheel. The later would permit top down driving on less than ideal days and would be more important than power everything.

For me, "Nicely loaded" for a basic roadster = A/C and a great CD system. Don't care about power anything (except steering) or ABS. I can crank the windows and raise/lower the top manually---got used to doing that with my Miata. I understand your thinking about heated seats and steering wheel for topdown comfort, but a good heater alone is fine with me. And absolutely NO to an automatic tranny, please!

No power steering wouldn't be bad either. My wife's Saturn LS1 doesn't have power steering and it's no problem at all. My father-in-law's Z3 isn't bad without p/s either. It definitely doesn't need ABS. Some people make like ABS, but I can't stand it. I guess I'm just used to not having it on my '79 camaro so I don't really need it.
Definitely no power windows or locks or top.
The heated wheel and seats makes sense, but as long as it's got a good heater and you've got a nice pair of driving gloves it's all good. My cousin and I would cruise in his Miata with the top down on mild winter days and were fine with the heater cranked up.
I'm all for offering it with no auto. tranny, but Americans are getting more and more lazy and don't care to learn to drive a manual. I bet they'll offer the first round just as manuals but afterwards they'll offer both to keep sales high.
A/C system and stereo system. Those are the only niceties that I want. (Besides the 200+hp 6 spd)

First time poster here.

Why do people not want power materials? The S2000 weighs 2800 lbs or less (depending on who you ask) and it has power locks, windows, steering, and mirrors.

If the Solstice is made correctly, the car should not weigh more then 2800 lbs. The S2000 is a beautiful roadster and tons of fun. And for me, power locks are a must, and I would really like power windows.

Hopefully GM will be able to find another 10hp N/A and I really think they have a great car on their hands. I would like forced induction though, and like to see them undercut the S2000 by 6gs and be near that 240hp mark. Now that would be nice, and the car would have some torque, the major detractor of the S2000.

Well, we have 1.5 years to find out.

ERIK